Matthew Lessall has made a very successful career out of casting indie films. For nearly a quarter century, he has been working on smaller projects and has earned more than his share of acclaim in the process. Ten times, his Casting Society (CSA) peers have nominated him for a coveted Artios Award in the low-budget, micro-budget, short film and web series categories, with a pair of wins most recently in 2020, for the feature Skin in the Game. He has over 150 credits to his name, with a lot more on the way. He spoke to us from his home office in Palm Springs, California, and we were joined for part of the conversation by his golden retriever, Noah.
Key Insights
- Focus on connecting with the character during self tapes. Technical perfection is not required.
- Keep your reels up to date. Casting directors often vet these before you’re ever invited to an audition.
- Cultivate a relaxed mindset for auditions. Just being called in means you’re already a top contender for the role.
How did you get into casting?
I was an actor, living in London. I went to drama school there, the one-year program at LAMDA. After a couple of years in London, a friend of mine, who I was doing a show with, asked me to be her assistant because she was starting an extras agency. Then another friend of mine from drama school said she was working for a casting director, Jeremy Zimmermann, and she said, “Jeremy’s looking for another assistant, would you like to do that?” That’s how it started. After eight years there, I moved to LA. I thought I wanted to work in a talent agency, but it never really ended up that way. I cast a film in London for a network that no longer exists with the wonderful casting director, Eve Brandstein, who helped me find my first jobs.
What kind of jobs were they?
It was straight-to-video TV movies, essentially for sale in international markets. We would hire actors to travel to Europe and work in countries like Latvia and Lithuania or Hungary, and then that turned into doing a few international mini-series for Hallmark. I did work for other casting directors in the process of all of that, but I’ve basically always been on my own, so I never really had the traditional apprenticeship with a casting director. I’ve had mentors …
Like who?
Eve, Roger Mussenden, Jeremy Zimmermann, Susan Shopmaker. Those are all my touchstones for how to do this job. In the process of being an independent film casting director, I also worked for a year at 20th Century Fox as a director of feature film casting, and then I had an opportunity to work at Paramount for a little bit, to cover somebody for one pilot season. So I’ve had these little other experiences, but mostly I just kind of stick to independent film.
What is it about actors that makes you so eager to work with them? As a casting director for years, obviously, but you actually entertained the notion of being an agent, too.
I’m always looking for the right actor for the role who’s the best possible choice. I’m always thinking of the highest standard possible. So when I work with an actor who gives me that energy, it’s like when you’re in acting school, and you know that you’re not the best actor in the group, but you know what it’s like to work with the best actor in the group, and they make you a better actor. That’s what it’s like for me in casting — I can tell right away that that actor is going to be right for the role, because they’re giving me the same feeling that I got when I was in my 20s, and learning how to act, learning what acting was all about, and being on stage with wonderful actors, and you just know. It’s a high that you get when you’re actually creating something magical out of imaginary circumstances.
Why do you focus almost exclusively on indie film?
That’s my niche for a reason. I don’t think people really talk about who runs the industry. Who are the people heading departments, or the corporateness with the studios. Playing that game, being part of that world, it’s never been my thing. I’m very much not a lone wolf; I just have my own opinions and way of doing things, and I think that doesn’t really gel with a lot of it. I’ve come to terms with this, so I’m totally okay with it, but it doesn’t really work on a lot of levels. You have to find the right people to work with. Also, for me, because I know what a good actor is, I know who’s right for a role. I’m not going to ever say I don’t, because then what would be the point?
But casting is more than that.
Exactly. There’s a business side of it, which is the negotiation and the finessing with the agents and the managers, and having that relationship over a long period of time. They become your partners because they’re the ones also sourcing their new talent. It’s about research and finding the new talent, whether it’s looking through all of the people graduating from drama schools, or the people who are new, people who are on the endless amounts of television and whatever videos you’re watching, whatever’s in the zeitgeist at the moment. It’s having to always know all this stuff, plugging it in when it’s right, so it’s a very multi-layered job, but it’s also very hard for me to be under somebody telling me what to do. Independent films of a certain budget always want to see who’s the biggest actor that they can get for the part. So you’re managing that process.
I want to ask about something you just said — staying on top of new talent. What’s the best way for a new actor to get your attention?
Honestly, it’s probably the same as everybody says. I watch a lot of television, I go to cinema, I go to the theater, you know? Sending me your material isn’t really going to do it anymore. In the olden days, you could graduate drama school, you would get into a show, the casting director would see the show, and then they would bring you in for a commercial or a TV spot, or part in a small part in a film. That’s how it was built. Now, everybody’s online all the time. We don’t even have offices. I do most things on Zoom, which I do if I have somebody that I’m really wanting to talk to for a specific project. That’s the direction it’s gone for me. It’s project-specific and less general, because knowing about an actor is great, and knowing that they’re out there and seeing them and watching the work that they do, but until I have a part that I think, “Oh, that actor that I saw in that play will be great,” that’s when I do the reach out. So I guess the answer of how they get on the radar is, they work. [Laughs]
Do you still get the same charge from giving opportunities to actors who are getting that first chance?
Oh my god, 100%. We just did a film called The Call, and I had a great opportunity to bring a bunch of actors in who I really enjoyed. It was great to have those actors audition and potentially get the roles and know that they’re going to get their first job. But I’m looking at projects differently. Who are the directors? What are the scripts that I’m really responding to? I’m turning down scripts that I don’t want to do, which is something that I’ve not done before, you know? In the before times, I was just doing whatever came in, and now I have the opportunity and the ability to be able to really work on the four or five projects that interest me. Sometimes I get to partner with people, so I get to work with wonderful colleagues in casting who I respect a lot, because I learn a lot from them.
Seeing as many people as you do, all the auditions, the various projects you work on, what piece of advice or wisdom would you give to someone coming in to see you?
I think all casting directors know that self tapes are not always ideal for every circumstance, but not to worry about the process and allow yourself to just act the role. We will fix it if we see something that needs to be fixed. I want actors to be relaxed and find something that they connect with in the character. In general, I don’t call in a lot of people for a role. I’m not doing 100 people for a five-line role, or a one- or two-scene role. It’s not happening. But I’m watching reels beforehand. I’m watching material to get a sense of if you’re right for the role already. So if you’re specifically coming in for me, know that I’ve watched that and I know who you are, and there’s something in you that seems right physically, or from your previous work, so don’t come with preconceived notions about anything. Just connect to the role and try to read the script. Even if it’s the smallest part in the film, read the script, and let me know that you did. Oftentimes, when actors let me know that they’ve read the script, I can tell that they have and that they have a sense of what the pieces are. Also, don’t stress about it. If you’re being called in, it’s for a very positive reason.
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