How Brett Benner and Debby Romano Built the World of Apple TV+’s ‘Shrinking’

December 17, 2024 | Zorianna Kit
Photo courtesy of Apple TV+.

Casting directors Brett Benner and Debby Romano reunite with their Scrubs and Cougar Town showrunner Bill Lawrence for Apple TV+’s comedy-drama Shrinking.

Created by Lawrence, Brett Goldstein (Ted Lasso) and Jason Segel, who also stars, the show follows Jimmy, a therapist grieving the loss of his wife. Struggling with his despair, Jimmy decides to abandon his professional training and ethics, choosing to tell his clients exactly what he thinks—a decision that leads to both chaos and catharsis.

With the second season of Shrinking wrapping up and a third season already greenlit, Benner and Romano spoke with Casting Networks about the unique challenges of building the show’s world, the process of introducing new characters in Season Two, and why in-person auditions remain vital to their casting approach.


Insights: Lessons from Brett Benner and Debby Romano

  • Stay connected with casting directors and industry professionals to increase your chances for future roles.
  • Provide two takes, one faithful to the script and another demonstrating improvisational skills.
  • Opt for in-person or live virtual auditions to make a stronger impression and build rapport with casting teams.

How did the process of establishing the core cast in Season One compare to adding new characters and expanding the world in Season Two? Was there a difference in approach?

Romano: The pilot (script) was very well received in the community, which was great because it’s Apple and Bill Lawrence, and we had Jason Segel attached. We made lists and the response from agents for the most part was: ‘Make an offer, and we’ll send it to them and see what happens.’

Is that how Harrison Ford came on board?

Romano: The Harrison Ford situation was mind-blowing. He’s a neighbor of Bill Lawrence! I remember our first conference call with our producers to talk about that role because it was so important. We came up with five names that everyone was excited about and we went through that list over Zoom.

Bill said, ‘Listen, there’s one name on this list who is my neighbor. I would like to take a stab at that. I think he’s out of town, but we’ll figure it out. It might take a while.’

Did it take a while?

Romano: It didn’t take as long as we thought, because Harrison was in London filming Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny and (Shrinking creator) Brett Goldstein was also in London. Brett became the front person to sell this to Harrison, and they just, like, fell in love. I think Harrison went to that dinner meeting ready to do the job and say yes in person.

Then the next role to cast after that was Gabby (Jessica Williams), and we just kept going: Sean (Luke Tennie), Alice (Lukita Maxwell), Brian (Michael Urie)…

Jessica Williams, Ted McGinley, Luke Tennie and Christa Miller sitting at a table inside. Photo courtesy of Apple TV+.

Were there any high points in that process?

Romano: One of the most rewarding parts of casting the pilot was casting Jimmy’s next-door neighbor Liz’s husband, Derek. (Liz is played by Lawrence’s real-life wife and frequent collaborator, Christa Miller.) They wanted someone recognizable, but someone who, at that point, was only a recurring role.

That ended up being Ted McGinley, who was bumped to a series regular for Season Two. How did you end up casting him?

Romano: We had been dancing with Ted McGinley for years. He was almost Dr. Cox in Scrubs, which went to another McGinley – John C. McGinley. Then we had another pilot that we did, and he was almost in it, but again he wasn’t.

When this role came about, we got on the phone with Bill and said: ‘We owe Ted this job. He will kill it. We are fools if we don’t try to get him.’ So that worked out and my God, Ted is just such a great piece of the puzzle!

Benner: They leaned into Ted this second season and that was nice to see. With Season Two, we could begin to flesh things out more because you understand the strengths of your cast, and what you can mine them for.

This season they expanded storylines, like bringing in Gaby’s sister and mother, for example. There’s a storyline with Brian and his husband deciding to have a baby. Watching the world expand has been great.

When the show was renewed, what changes in the casting process stood out to you?

Benner: The biggest difference between the first and second season is we had people calling us to say, ‘So-and-so wants to do the show. Let us know if you find anything for them.’

We also had an added level of confidence when we would call reps because we knew we were offering a quality project that so many people watched and loved. 

Christa Miller and Lukita Maxwell sitting at the kitchen table for dinner. Photo courtesy of Apple TV+.

The cast also includes Wendy Malick, Lily Rabe, Heidi Gardner, and even Goldstein as a recurring character in Season Two as the driver who killed Jimmy’s wife. With such a large recurring cast in Season Two, was there a specific challenge in managing schedules?

Benner: There’s a lot of moving parts on this show. Many of these actors have a million things going on so it can be a scheduling nightmare. 

Was there a particularly tricky scheduling challenge with any of the cast members?

Benner: With Heidi Gardner being on Saturday Night Live, we could only have her shoot on a Monday. We’d fly her on a Sunday and she’d have to fly out Tuesday morning. We were under very tight constraints with her, but they kept writing her in! 

Season Two introduced new characters in Gaby’s family. How did Jessica Williams feel about having her character’s family expanded?

Benner: We were fortunate that when we were casting Gaby’s sister and mother, Jessica was so generous and game. She wanted to be involved to the point where she read with the finalists for chemistry reads. She zoomed in from her vacation at one point because we were on hiatus when we were trying to cast the mom role. She was incredible.

Do you bring actors from other shows you worked on with Bill, like Scrubs or Cougar Town?

Benner: We’ve done a lot of pilots with Bill that never saw the light of day. For example, we did a pilot called Spaced Out, that was loosely based on Elon Musk and SpaceX. That’s when Bill met Brett Goldstein for the first time because Brett ended up playing the Elon Musk character.

Ted McGinley in the kitchen making an expressive gesture in "Shrinking," Photo courtesy of Apple TV+.

How did you end up casting Brett Goldstein for Spaced Out?

Benner: CAA called and said, ‘We have this client in from London. Would you sit with him and read him?’  I said yes. Brett came in, and he was so interesting and charming, and he got the role even though it was not initially pitched being a British character.

During that time is also when Bill discovered what a brilliant writer Brett Goldstein is.  

Are there any other actors from Scrubs or Cougar Town involved in this show?

Benner: This season we have Josh Hopkins from Cougar Town on. And (Scrubs star) Zack Braff has directed lots of episodes this season. Christa Miller was on Scrubs, Cougar Town and many other shows. Neil Flynn (who plays one of Ford’s patients) was the janitor for years on Scrubs.

There’s a collective of so many of us who have worked together now for 25 years. That kind of loyalty is rare in Hollywood. Debby and I used to joke that Bill was either extremely loyal or extremely lazy. One or the other, but we were glad because we benefited regardless!

Now that you’re prepping for Season Three and starting to meet with actors, how many takes do you prefer when you receive self tapes?

Benner: When you’re doing self tapes, I think it’s permissible to do two takes, as long as they are different.

Romano: We’re a show that has a lot of fantastic improvisers so when you’re choosing your two takes, choose one that is just the words on the page. Then choose one where you know improv can be added, whether it be a button at the end, or a funny reaction… just so we can see the instinct of the actor.

COVID forced actors to pivot to self tapes more than ever, and the audition landscape has changed a lot. How do you see things from your perspective?

Benner: One thing that happened is that walking into the (audition) room seems to have gone away, and that’s a shame. It’s not gone away completely. Many offices are in some kind of a hybrid situation, but it’s a lot of self taping now.

Because of the new SAG rules, we always offer a live session whether it’s in the room or a Zoom. We present one of those, but we’ve been startled and surprised by the amount of actors who choose to not have a live audition with us. 

Ted McGinley, Jessica Williams, Jason Segel, Michael Urie and Christa Miller sitting at the dinner table. Photo courtesy of Apple TV+.

What do you think is driving that?

It seems like an age thing. Anyone over 30 who remembers what it was like going around auditioning and meeting with casting – will take an in-person audition. But the younger actors, many of who are just newly out of school or just starting, rarely will choose to have the in-person audition.  

How does this shift in the audition processes affect the casting teams?

Benner: That’s a bummer from our perspective. One of the things we love about casting is getting to know you beyond your acting. We have an opportunity to be in the room with you and to say potentially, ‘Let’s try that again,’ or ‘Let’s see who you are beyond what you’re (reading for)’. Some of that is now lost. 

It’s a disadvantage for the actor too, right?

Benner: I do get concerned that there are actors who are never going to foster those relationships. For us, we look at it as an opportunity to get to know the person so when we’re pitching an actor to a producer, we can speak confidently and say, ‘They can do this role because we’ve brought them in a lot, we’ve talked them through, they take adjustments well….’  That’s the bummer of not being in the room together.

It’s a missed opportunity for a valuable connection. How are you getting yourselves ready for the Season Three casting process?

Romano: As you know, it’s a very large recurring cast and a lot of them will more than likely be returning. We’ll see the new story arcs and the new characters. The writers write certain roles with specific people in mind, but they are also very open to our ideas on other roles. We’re excited to find out what’s coming this season.

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